First of all, my personal history is makes me more likely to hate streaming - I was a record store manager for over 17 years - my career evaporated because of streaming services. I was there, and impacted by Napster. I still signed up for Spotify the day it became available in the US, because as a consumer, it's a fantastic (though flawed) product.
So here we go:
1. Here are some truths -
•streaming services do not pay artists fairly.
•Daniel Ek is a ‐‐------ (pick your own favorite disparaging descriptor).
•Ice ads were an awful, despicable choice.
Here are some more -
• Tim Cook was just at the White House. Apple doesn't pay artists fairly either. (Why aren't leftists calling for everyone to get rid of their iPhones?).
• There are no streaming services that solve the problems. Spotify is hardly unique in all the ways it is bad.
• Record labels, industry execs, club managers, etc. etc. have been using, abusing, and treating artists horribly since the dawn of recorded music. If you enjoy listening to music, somewhere along the line someone awful is profiting off of you.
2. I am a massive fan of music. I listen. I discuss. I share recommendations. I go to shows. I buy merch. I do everything in my very limited power to bring attention to small artists. I have limited funds. I could never buy all the music I listen to. It would be impossible. If I listen less. Recommend less. Go to less shows. Support less artists, is that really better? Better for whom?
3. Many artists say they can't opt out because they can't afford to (which I believe to be true) but why should the artist be exempt from responsibility, but for the consumer it's morally wrong? The reality is that the whole system is problematic, as it has always been.
4. Music, and the community that music creates around artists and genres is a good thing, no a great thing. Essential in this increasingly difficult world we are all trying to navigate. Anything that helps artists connect with their community has value in my book. Streaming services are invaluable in this capacity.
5. Music for me isn't just a thing I enjoy. It is a lifeline. Therapy. My connection to it keeps me grounded, my sanity relies on it. Without it, well - I'm not well. I need access. I need variety. I need new things to fall in love with. New discoveries. That's probably not the way most people feel about music, so it's an easier thing for a lot of people to give up access.
6. Leftists...I love you, I am you, but the absolute moral superiority you often require/claim is just incorrect. You want things to be easy. Black and white. Nuance, discourse, gray areas not allowed. That's not how things work. The reality is that we can't give up everything that benefits a bad guy. If you use a computer, ever - you either benefit Apple, Microsoft, or Google. If you buy a car. Or a loaf of bread. Or anything at all (I guess I'm going all Good Place as well) someone greedy will make money. Do you do full research on where you're money goes with every single item you buy at the grocery store? Should you? Is that realistic?
7. The big argument to refute all my arguments (of why I will continue to use Spotify) is easy - you could just call me selfish - and maybe there is truth to that...but where is the line drawn between selfish and self preservation?
8. OK, I've written way too much. If using Spotify is the most evil thing I do in my life, I can live with that. I do my best every day to leave the world around me better than I found it. Do I always succeed? Probably not. Is my version of better, everyone else's idea if better? Well that's a whole other rant for another day.
i want to pin this and shout it to the rooftops. i couldn't possibly agree more with every single point.
i tried to post this article to Tik Tok and was IMMEDIATELY shot down with "there are fatal flaws in this article that show you're complicit" etc etc etc. like just stop, I can't stomach the puritanism. this right here, what you posted, is the discourse I signed up for.
God bless your little heart for sticking to your guns.
Your Point #6 is the one that stands out to me - as I’ve stated elsewhere, and you state in this point, we’re all complicit in some way or another, somewhere or other, and we all draw our own lines. Mine are admittedly quite squiggly.
I mean, one absolutely cannot use the internet without using Google, and one cannot live in basic society without using the internet these days. I mean, unless you wanna go full Luddite and move off the grid, you’re going to be complicit. It’s just world we live in.
I don’t fault an artist for making a living the best way they can, and having to distract themselves with the good vs bad decisions of each channel where they distribute over and above the financial shit is maybe too much to ask. Maybe, I dunno. Except Exene - I’m still pissed at her (see squiggly line comment above).
That said, maybe we should just live simply, do the best we can, be nice and give the person sitting next to us on the bus the same grace and respect we might ask for ourselves. Most are walking through the same muck and mire that we all do. Golden Rule shit 101…and maybe make the choices that seem right to us but don’t go all ex-smoker when we find our own personal Jesus…
I'm pleased that generally the comments here reflect the same kind of measured attitude that you're all espousing. but I have to say that on the back end, it's not the same. the DMs, the unsubscribes, the 13% of poll respondents who say there's no gray area to this issue... it's a shame that saying "things are nuanced" is so controversial
Certainty, like blind faith, seems to come so very easily for some. And, sometimes I envy them — it would save me a lot of nighttime angst and I’d probably sleep better. But only sometimes…
Incredible comment. I've gotten into far too many arguments around royalty rates and how Spotify is horrible b/c they pay $.0132 cents less than Apple when the entire system is rigged against artists.
All you can eat is great for music lovers, for sure. You get to sample to your heart’s content. In ye olde days, you had to buy the “record” w/o knowing if you would like the album tracks.
as I mentioned in the article, I'm kind of an edge case because I'm stuck with Spotify for the sake of my readers. if I were just doing this for myself I would have been out ages ago, but curation for thousands of people is a totally different animal. but that certainly doesn't mean I don't want to collect all of these alternatives!
Some great points here! First, it's worth mentioning that there are few things more exhausting than an internet scold. And frankly, the people bellowing at you to get off Spotify rarely have an alternative. it's all performative nonsense. To Max's point, these folks never had to endure the pain of buying a whole ass record for one song, either.
I'm not claiming any high ground here- I'll tell anyone who listens to move to Qobuz or Bandcamp, but I get it. In my own case, the standard arc goes something like this: Discovery on Spotify--> Listening on Qobuz--> Buying on Bandcamp. YMMV.
On the writer side, it's important to meet readers where they're at, and for better or worse, right now that place is Spotify. In an ideal world, that would change--and I think we're seeing some green shoots of that with each bad decision Ek makes-- but we're not there yet. And purity tests won't speed anything up.
Gosh, the experience of buying an album for one song and then the album not being worth it...that feels so deeply '90s. But yeah, Spotify is still most music listeners' home. I'm kind of obsessed with Gabbie's point that awareness doesn’t automatically change behavior, and that's why folks are sticking to Spotify, and it's partially just human nature. Or, at least, American nature. Anyway, thanks for reading and commenting, Kevin! And for continuing to use "YMMV" as though it's your middle name.
In a similar vein to the cd for one single topic, remember when comps were like $3 and it was the huge gateway into smaller labels and their catalog? I would buy those up left and right to find bands, only to then be let down by the rest of the album b/c the one song they put on the comp was the best song they wrote.
My personal practice, in a world in which almost no corporation is morally defensible, is to boycott the worst offender in any given industry and to use the best option that still scratches the itch. If we all did that, it would encourage companies to at least be a little bit better than each other. A little competition to not be the worst. I quit Spotify last year in favor of Apple music. It’s not a perfect move, but it’s a little better. I agree, trying to be perfect often keeps people from doing anything at all. Trying to be a little better is doable for everyone, so it might actually move the needle.
One thing I like about Apple Music vs Spotify is how easy it is to fold albums you buy outside of their ecosystem into your listening/playlist creation/etc. I'm a lot more likely to listen to an album I pay for on Bandcamp if I can download the mp3s, add them to Apple Music like I used to do when it was just iTunes, and still listen to all of it in one place. It's also a good reminder of how many albums *aren't* on the streaming servies.
As an active musician, I seriously appreciated the nuance throughout this post. It’s a losing game to be so puritanical. I try to be patient with others when explaining, for instance, why our band is no longer on Spotify. Public shaming didn’t stop a first or second Trump term and it certainly won’t end streaming, which is at its zenith.
I’m pretty much in lockstep with what y’all proposed. Use streaming to test drive, and if you love the music, buy it directly through places like Bandcamp. Continue to support artists by purchasing merch and attending shows. Fun fact: our band makes more from a single album purchase via Bandcamp than it does from 2,000 streams on Spotify.
Lastly, I would urge anyone reading this to check out Los Campesinos! streaming breakdown for their last album—it’s a brutally honest glimpse into that ecosystem.
streaming for discovery. bandcamp (and concerts, and merch, etc.) for actually supporting the artist. and +1 to that los campesinos! breakdown; it's excellent.
Question: if I purchase on Bandcamp, can I get hi-res and/or FLAC? And, if so, how can I play it at that res on my phone and/or laptop? And, can I Airplay it at hi-res?
I can answer some of this! I’m almost certain that FLAC is available on Bandcamp, though my memory may be playing tricks on me — I’m personally fine with 320kbps. Anything you purchase on Bandcamp is downloadable to any laptop or phone, though I don’t know whether the Bandcamp mobile app supports FLAC streaming. Not sure about Airplay though. Hope this helps!
FLAC is available on bandcamp. And even though i had originally downloaded a ton of stuff I bought off it from MP3, it let me re-download as FLAC. My PC and my phone storage were not happy...
I went off and did some research on this. Yes, Bandcamp provides FLAC that I can download to my Mac, and then I can move those files to a DAP with 2 TB of storage that is both portable and can stand as a media server/content source on my stereo network. A decent DAP like this can be had for around $250.
What DAP are you looking at? Im building out a secondary system in my basement, and just got a WiiM mini for streaming. But it would be nice to have my other stuff down there too, which a lot is not available anywhere to stream.
also thought about using a portable DAC with my phone on the go, but my speakers at work are cheap, and I dont care to haul even a small hifi or headphone setup there.
I originally looked at the HiBy R5, but in spite of it being a really good portable DAP as a desktop it should only be played on battery, and that is limiting.
So, I turned to a more expensive Fiio M33, which can run a Plex server that can be discovered as a source by both Sonos and Bluesound, and it has a switch to allow you to run on connected power without overpowering the battery.
As a vegan who doesn't eat cheese or fake meats and somebody who also buys records, I think the bigger moral imperative would be for all of us to quit buying from Amazon. Do that first, and then maybe look at moving off Spotify.
When it comes to "morals," we are all hypocritical.
People take the moral high ground about Spotify, yet still buy shit from Amazon. Vegans have become the brunt of jokes, even by people who worry about climate change. And people are quick to dismiss a specific musician, but still happy to listen to another problematic musician. And, just the other day, here in the "anarchist jurisdiction" that is Portland, Oregon, I saw a bumper sticker on a Tesla that said "I bought this before Elon went crazy." Ummm... really? I think he was always a piece of shit.
there's always some bigger moral imperative and there's always always unintended harm we're doing no matter how much we refuse to participate. we just have to do what's realistic to the best of our ability and do good within the evil system to the extent we can.
Ok. My feeling on this is that there is no moral imperative and it is only to do with your own moral compass and how you feel about your purchasing choices. My least favourite thing about social media is the urge that people seem to have to appear unimpeachably virtuous and to cast aspersions on anyone not making the same decisions. Streaming is the way that music is available now. I love using it and I don’t really want to go back to the way things were before. I am conscious that this is not great for musicians and I therefore support the bands I love in whatever way I can. I never really moved away from physical media and I try to buy cds or vinyl of albums I love wherever possible. I go to a lot of gigs and do my best to support smaller artists and venues in this way. I buy merch and drinks at the bar. This is my version of ‘vegan except the cheese’ and I am perfectly comfortable with it. I cancelled my Spotify subscription last year because I didn’t want to knowingly contribute to AI weapons tech. Do I think other streamers (especially Apple/ YouTube/ Amazon etc) are spending money more ethically? Probably not. But somehow leaving a company that is ONLY about streaming feels like it makes a statement, and I feel comfortable that marginally more of my money is actually being paid to the artists than was the case at Spotify. Streaming sucks for artists because the majority of people don’t invest more in music than their monthly subscription. I can’t be responsible for that. I can only say that the bands I love get as much investment from me now as they would if streaming didn’t exist. In fact, they get more because without streaming I probably would never have heard of them!
My vegan with cheese was to switch to Tidal. Not perfect, but to quit streaming wasn’t really an option.
I believe we all can do something, but no one can do everything right. I still use several platforms and buy products from companies that I ethically shouldn’t. I try to be conscious about my consumption, recycle and reuse, but I still buy a lot of things I don’t actually need. And my technological footprint is not good 😱
But doing some changes are always better than doing nothing!
Agreed. Streaming is easy and give access to tons of music so choose a platform that pays the artist better than Spotify, the industry leader (I use Tidal). Maybe is enough people do it (doubtful) Spotify and others will raise what they pay.
Also support bands by going to shows and buying merch.
As you say - Not perfect...but hopefully a better option.
Yes! I totally forgot to mention shows. Supporting the local music scene is a great and probably the best way to support artists. And the most fun way to support them 😊
I used to attend a lot of shows, but unfortunately I’m not able to right now. I still support artists by buying records and merch.
I quit Spotify. I miss the playlists. I still quit. I have Autism and have a hard case of Justice Sensitivity. I'm 64 and have been a music snob since my undergrad stint in 1980 in the Lost Angeles area as a college dj. It may be easier for me to drop the new technology because I'm decades deep in the old tech. (I have done the iPod mod though so I'm not completely Stone Age.) I like owning my music. I like knowing that if the God Squad starts censoring music like they are doing with books that I have music that is "mine" and won't disappear into the ether. I have no expectation that anyone else needs to do what I do. But I have friends my age that were are in successful bands that still tour and I know how much they get paid. I buy merch, I see the gigs....and after they told me how much they get paid I spend more on Bandcamp supporting them like I used to buying their albums. It's what I do to live in alignment with my values.
I like cheese. I just feel like buying the cheese I like is better than just having a sample at Costco and hoping that the cheese sample is there next time......not sure if that's a great analogy for this situation, but hey, cheese.
With Apple Music's library integrating all the digital files I accumulated before starting a streaming subscription, I have my high school CD rips, living alongside the bounty secured during my college pirate years, living alongside songs I added through Apple's streaming library. When you start an Apple Music subscription, you have the option of uploading your existing iTunes library of locally-stored files to Apple Music's servers, and they will either match to songs from their library (and will be streamed at their lossless quality) or will just upload that old file, unmatched to anything, and play a copy of that file that lives in their cloud.
As each song is added to the library, I add my own comments to the metadata, using little codes that make sense to me. One such code is a $ for any song I purchased (via CD that I ripped back in the day or purchased through Bandcamp today).
Then I have smart playlists with criteria that effectively retire songs from circulation if they don't have a dollar sign in the comments but have been listened to more than 10 times. At that point, they move to a smart playlist (that I never play) but functions as a to-do list: either pony up the dough to add the song into permanent rotation, or delete the song from the library. When I have room in the budget, I head to that playlist and show some love to the artists that have clearly moved me.
Not realistic for the average listener, but it fits my obsessive listening habits perfectly. 😌
There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism. Buying records and CDs contributes to the petroleum industry, as does driving to the store or having stuff delivered. It also contributes to the paper industry, which isn’t exactly known for sustainable practices. Industry itself makes for pollution, albeit less now than at the start of the Industrial Revolution. Even posting a discussion like this, however helpful at spreading a message and critically examining the issues, still relies on a robust but very evil tech industry and infrastructure.
Come to think of it, many of the musicians we support smoke, drink, and do drugs. Shall we start on how so many musicians and so called anti-establishment cool kids support Big Tobacco? Or cartels? I love Minor Threat but I’d like to hear Pink Floyd again.
Even if we spent every dime ethically, we have no way of knowing how our money is used by the next person.
Expecting people to be aware of all the ways they are being unethical, like we’re all subscribed to the same leftist newsletter with this week’s marching orders and talking points (while the world burns regardless), is just being an obnoxious scold. There is no way to be ethical! That’s not us. That’s the system. Yes, we’re part of the system. If we all rose up, yadda yadda, utopia. Guess what, musicians are still gonna need to put their music out there. People are still gonna do the easiest and cheapest thing.
All we can do is try to use the evil tools for good and try to get some sleep at night before getting up and trying again. Otherwise enjoying life is implausible.
I think i mentioned this on an earlier post, but my personal line in the sand with Spotify was Joe Rogan, the same way Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais were my line on Netflix. I don't judge anyone else for still using them, but as a trans person I couldn't spend my money that way anymore. I also don't mean to sound like a hipster, but I still listen to a fair amount of FM radio. I don't know how radio compensates artists compared to streaming, but I still listen to a lot of music I never pay for by purchasing an album.
I've tried Tidal but it tends to crash and their Android Auto interface is really lacking. I have YT Music for free through another subscription and for obvious reasons it plays well with Android so I'll often use that in the car.
The last point in favor of streaming services is the ability to find artists who don't sing in English. That's something you don't find on US radio or even most record stores. Not just the conlang singers like jan Usawi who you shared recently, but the indigenous music movement, German or French artists I've found and enjoyed over the years, anything like that.
A lot of good points made by others, too. The music industry has always been exploitative. We've only really had broadly available, commercially released music for 100 years. In that time we've gone through a few different models of distribution and the balance has always had to be struck between the listener, the artist, and the various intermediaries. We've probably gotten a lot of that wrong. Streaming is still pretty young. with luck we'll find a way to make it more equitable, but media is a constant struggle. TV is consolodating these days, too, which really sucks. We're down to, what, 4 companies that own everything just about? Maybe the end of this era will be the return of the wandering bard.
i embrace the return of the bard! funny how everyone hated the idea of cable so much and now we've effectively just forced ourselves back into it by spending a shit ton of money on 5+ different TV streaming services, all with "freemium" ads, just to get a cable-esque experience.
on another note i don't think i ever thought i'd see "hipster" and "fm radio" in the same sentence. i don't think hipsters really exist anymore to be fair, but when they did, i'm pretty sure none of them would admit to listening to anything on the radio ;) maybe college radio!
I love that this posted the same day Spotify notified me of an increase in their monthly fee. 🫠
That said, partially because of Spotify (the algorithm and playlists), My partner and I went to 30 shows last year. Merch was purchased at 90% of those shows. My Spotify subscription may bankrupt me financially and morally, but until there is an equal alternative, I am sticking with it. The thought of restarting my algorithm makes my old head hurt.
I'm still trying to navigate through all of this. I love that I have been exposed to a ton of music via Spotify over the years. I've got dozens of playlists on my account. I also use Apple Music, which is where I take all of the best stuff I hear on Spotify. So, I could probably dump Spotify at this point. Ultimately I need to do what's most convenient for me but I do want to support artists more than I do.
Organizing is more important than boycotting. If you have an issue. Organize around it. Cancelling 1 sub does nothing. Organizing 100,000 people to cancel their subs sends the message.
another reason why it's a good idea to educate and write about it, I think. and as somebody who feels stuck with Spotify from a curation perspective, I'm also chatting with app makers who are trying to create alternatives that are better for curators and not just listeners
Well, I have thoughts on the subject...
First of all, my personal history is makes me more likely to hate streaming - I was a record store manager for over 17 years - my career evaporated because of streaming services. I was there, and impacted by Napster. I still signed up for Spotify the day it became available in the US, because as a consumer, it's a fantastic (though flawed) product.
So here we go:
1. Here are some truths -
•streaming services do not pay artists fairly.
•Daniel Ek is a ‐‐------ (pick your own favorite disparaging descriptor).
•Ice ads were an awful, despicable choice.
Here are some more -
• Tim Cook was just at the White House. Apple doesn't pay artists fairly either. (Why aren't leftists calling for everyone to get rid of their iPhones?).
• There are no streaming services that solve the problems. Spotify is hardly unique in all the ways it is bad.
• Record labels, industry execs, club managers, etc. etc. have been using, abusing, and treating artists horribly since the dawn of recorded music. If you enjoy listening to music, somewhere along the line someone awful is profiting off of you.
2. I am a massive fan of music. I listen. I discuss. I share recommendations. I go to shows. I buy merch. I do everything in my very limited power to bring attention to small artists. I have limited funds. I could never buy all the music I listen to. It would be impossible. If I listen less. Recommend less. Go to less shows. Support less artists, is that really better? Better for whom?
3. Many artists say they can't opt out because they can't afford to (which I believe to be true) but why should the artist be exempt from responsibility, but for the consumer it's morally wrong? The reality is that the whole system is problematic, as it has always been.
4. Music, and the community that music creates around artists and genres is a good thing, no a great thing. Essential in this increasingly difficult world we are all trying to navigate. Anything that helps artists connect with their community has value in my book. Streaming services are invaluable in this capacity.
5. Music for me isn't just a thing I enjoy. It is a lifeline. Therapy. My connection to it keeps me grounded, my sanity relies on it. Without it, well - I'm not well. I need access. I need variety. I need new things to fall in love with. New discoveries. That's probably not the way most people feel about music, so it's an easier thing for a lot of people to give up access.
6. Leftists...I love you, I am you, but the absolute moral superiority you often require/claim is just incorrect. You want things to be easy. Black and white. Nuance, discourse, gray areas not allowed. That's not how things work. The reality is that we can't give up everything that benefits a bad guy. If you use a computer, ever - you either benefit Apple, Microsoft, or Google. If you buy a car. Or a loaf of bread. Or anything at all (I guess I'm going all Good Place as well) someone greedy will make money. Do you do full research on where you're money goes with every single item you buy at the grocery store? Should you? Is that realistic?
7. The big argument to refute all my arguments (of why I will continue to use Spotify) is easy - you could just call me selfish - and maybe there is truth to that...but where is the line drawn between selfish and self preservation?
8. OK, I've written way too much. If using Spotify is the most evil thing I do in my life, I can live with that. I do my best every day to leave the world around me better than I found it. Do I always succeed? Probably not. Is my version of better, everyone else's idea if better? Well that's a whole other rant for another day.
i want to pin this and shout it to the rooftops. i couldn't possibly agree more with every single point.
i tried to post this article to Tik Tok and was IMMEDIATELY shot down with "there are fatal flaws in this article that show you're complicit" etc etc etc. like just stop, I can't stomach the puritanism. this right here, what you posted, is the discourse I signed up for.
I was writing it thinking, this is so long, nobody's gonna read it!
My favorite comments are the long ones!! And the points you make here are 100%!!!
God bless your little heart for sticking to your guns.
Your Point #6 is the one that stands out to me - as I’ve stated elsewhere, and you state in this point, we’re all complicit in some way or another, somewhere or other, and we all draw our own lines. Mine are admittedly quite squiggly.
I mean, one absolutely cannot use the internet without using Google, and one cannot live in basic society without using the internet these days. I mean, unless you wanna go full Luddite and move off the grid, you’re going to be complicit. It’s just world we live in.
I don’t fault an artist for making a living the best way they can, and having to distract themselves with the good vs bad decisions of each channel where they distribute over and above the financial shit is maybe too much to ask. Maybe, I dunno. Except Exene - I’m still pissed at her (see squiggly line comment above).
That said, maybe we should just live simply, do the best we can, be nice and give the person sitting next to us on the bus the same grace and respect we might ask for ourselves. Most are walking through the same muck and mire that we all do. Golden Rule shit 101…and maybe make the choices that seem right to us but don’t go all ex-smoker when we find our own personal Jesus…
I'm pleased that generally the comments here reflect the same kind of measured attitude that you're all espousing. but I have to say that on the back end, it's not the same. the DMs, the unsubscribes, the 13% of poll respondents who say there's no gray area to this issue... it's a shame that saying "things are nuanced" is so controversial
Certainty, like blind faith, seems to come so very easily for some. And, sometimes I envy them — it would save me a lot of nighttime angst and I’d probably sleep better. But only sometimes…
Incredible comment. I've gotten into far too many arguments around royalty rates and how Spotify is horrible b/c they pay $.0132 cents less than Apple when the entire system is rigged against artists.
All you can eat is great for music lovers, for sure. You get to sample to your heart’s content. In ye olde days, you had to buy the “record” w/o knowing if you would like the album tracks.
Louder and louder for those in the back
Incredible comment!
as I mentioned in the article, I'm kind of an edge case because I'm stuck with Spotify for the sake of my readers. if I were just doing this for myself I would have been out ages ago, but curation for thousands of people is a totally different animal. but that certainly doesn't mean I don't want to collect all of these alternatives!
Huge +1
Some great points here! First, it's worth mentioning that there are few things more exhausting than an internet scold. And frankly, the people bellowing at you to get off Spotify rarely have an alternative. it's all performative nonsense. To Max's point, these folks never had to endure the pain of buying a whole ass record for one song, either.
I'm not claiming any high ground here- I'll tell anyone who listens to move to Qobuz or Bandcamp, but I get it. In my own case, the standard arc goes something like this: Discovery on Spotify--> Listening on Qobuz--> Buying on Bandcamp. YMMV.
On the writer side, it's important to meet readers where they're at, and for better or worse, right now that place is Spotify. In an ideal world, that would change--and I think we're seeing some green shoots of that with each bad decision Ek makes-- but we're not there yet. And purity tests won't speed anything up.
Gosh, the experience of buying an album for one song and then the album not being worth it...that feels so deeply '90s. But yeah, Spotify is still most music listeners' home. I'm kind of obsessed with Gabbie's point that awareness doesn’t automatically change behavior, and that's why folks are sticking to Spotify, and it's partially just human nature. Or, at least, American nature. Anyway, thanks for reading and commenting, Kevin! And for continuing to use "YMMV" as though it's your middle name.
Lol. The older I get, the more I embrace the idea of "live and let live."
(and it's cooler than the name on my driver's license.)
In a similar vein to the cd for one single topic, remember when comps were like $3 and it was the huge gateway into smaller labels and their catalog? I would buy those up left and right to find bands, only to then be let down by the rest of the album b/c the one song they put on the comp was the best song they wrote.
My personal practice, in a world in which almost no corporation is morally defensible, is to boycott the worst offender in any given industry and to use the best option that still scratches the itch. If we all did that, it would encourage companies to at least be a little bit better than each other. A little competition to not be the worst. I quit Spotify last year in favor of Apple music. It’s not a perfect move, but it’s a little better. I agree, trying to be perfect often keeps people from doing anything at all. Trying to be a little better is doable for everyone, so it might actually move the needle.
I like this! It evokes the last sentence of the Tony Fletcher quote from this post, which is largely where I land on this issue.
One thing I like about Apple Music vs Spotify is how easy it is to fold albums you buy outside of their ecosystem into your listening/playlist creation/etc. I'm a lot more likely to listen to an album I pay for on Bandcamp if I can download the mp3s, add them to Apple Music like I used to do when it was just iTunes, and still listen to all of it in one place. It's also a good reminder of how many albums *aren't* on the streaming servies.
As an active musician, I seriously appreciated the nuance throughout this post. It’s a losing game to be so puritanical. I try to be patient with others when explaining, for instance, why our band is no longer on Spotify. Public shaming didn’t stop a first or second Trump term and it certainly won’t end streaming, which is at its zenith.
I’m pretty much in lockstep with what y’all proposed. Use streaming to test drive, and if you love the music, buy it directly through places like Bandcamp. Continue to support artists by purchasing merch and attending shows. Fun fact: our band makes more from a single album purchase via Bandcamp than it does from 2,000 streams on Spotify.
Lastly, I would urge anyone reading this to check out Los Campesinos! streaming breakdown for their last album—it’s a brutally honest glimpse into that ecosystem.
—Matt
streaming for discovery. bandcamp (and concerts, and merch, etc.) for actually supporting the artist. and +1 to that los campesinos! breakdown; it's excellent.
Question: if I purchase on Bandcamp, can I get hi-res and/or FLAC? And, if so, how can I play it at that res on my phone and/or laptop? And, can I Airplay it at hi-res?
I can answer some of this! I’m almost certain that FLAC is available on Bandcamp, though my memory may be playing tricks on me — I’m personally fine with 320kbps. Anything you purchase on Bandcamp is downloadable to any laptop or phone, though I don’t know whether the Bandcamp mobile app supports FLAC streaming. Not sure about Airplay though. Hope this helps!
FLAC is available on bandcamp. And even though i had originally downloaded a ton of stuff I bought off it from MP3, it let me re-download as FLAC. My PC and my phone storage were not happy...
I went off and did some research on this. Yes, Bandcamp provides FLAC that I can download to my Mac, and then I can move those files to a DAP with 2 TB of storage that is both portable and can stand as a media server/content source on my stereo network. A decent DAP like this can be had for around $250.
What DAP are you looking at? Im building out a secondary system in my basement, and just got a WiiM mini for streaming. But it would be nice to have my other stuff down there too, which a lot is not available anywhere to stream.
also thought about using a portable DAC with my phone on the go, but my speakers at work are cheap, and I dont care to haul even a small hifi or headphone setup there.
I originally looked at the HiBy R5, but in spite of it being a really good portable DAP as a desktop it should only be played on battery, and that is limiting.
So, I turned to a more expensive Fiio M33, which can run a Plex server that can be discovered as a source by both Sonos and Bluesound, and it has a switch to allow you to run on connected power without overpowering the battery.
I still need to do some more research…
As a vegan who doesn't eat cheese or fake meats and somebody who also buys records, I think the bigger moral imperative would be for all of us to quit buying from Amazon. Do that first, and then maybe look at moving off Spotify.
When it comes to "morals," we are all hypocritical.
People take the moral high ground about Spotify, yet still buy shit from Amazon. Vegans have become the brunt of jokes, even by people who worry about climate change. And people are quick to dismiss a specific musician, but still happy to listen to another problematic musician. And, just the other day, here in the "anarchist jurisdiction" that is Portland, Oregon, I saw a bumper sticker on a Tesla that said "I bought this before Elon went crazy." Ummm... really? I think he was always a piece of shit.
there's always some bigger moral imperative and there's always always unintended harm we're doing no matter how much we refuse to participate. we just have to do what's realistic to the best of our ability and do good within the evil system to the extent we can.
Ok. My feeling on this is that there is no moral imperative and it is only to do with your own moral compass and how you feel about your purchasing choices. My least favourite thing about social media is the urge that people seem to have to appear unimpeachably virtuous and to cast aspersions on anyone not making the same decisions. Streaming is the way that music is available now. I love using it and I don’t really want to go back to the way things were before. I am conscious that this is not great for musicians and I therefore support the bands I love in whatever way I can. I never really moved away from physical media and I try to buy cds or vinyl of albums I love wherever possible. I go to a lot of gigs and do my best to support smaller artists and venues in this way. I buy merch and drinks at the bar. This is my version of ‘vegan except the cheese’ and I am perfectly comfortable with it. I cancelled my Spotify subscription last year because I didn’t want to knowingly contribute to AI weapons tech. Do I think other streamers (especially Apple/ YouTube/ Amazon etc) are spending money more ethically? Probably not. But somehow leaving a company that is ONLY about streaming feels like it makes a statement, and I feel comfortable that marginally more of my money is actually being paid to the artists than was the case at Spotify. Streaming sucks for artists because the majority of people don’t invest more in music than their monthly subscription. I can’t be responsible for that. I can only say that the bands I love get as much investment from me now as they would if streaming didn’t exist. In fact, they get more because without streaming I probably would never have heard of them!
Great take Lou, and I think this is where most people will land.
My vegan with cheese was to switch to Tidal. Not perfect, but to quit streaming wasn’t really an option.
I believe we all can do something, but no one can do everything right. I still use several platforms and buy products from companies that I ethically shouldn’t. I try to be conscious about my consumption, recycle and reuse, but I still buy a lot of things I don’t actually need. And my technological footprint is not good 😱
But doing some changes are always better than doing nothing!
Agreed. Streaming is easy and give access to tons of music so choose a platform that pays the artist better than Spotify, the industry leader (I use Tidal). Maybe is enough people do it (doubtful) Spotify and others will raise what they pay.
Also support bands by going to shows and buying merch.
As you say - Not perfect...but hopefully a better option.
Yes! I totally forgot to mention shows. Supporting the local music scene is a great and probably the best way to support artists. And the most fun way to support them 😊
I used to attend a lot of shows, but unfortunately I’m not able to right now. I still support artists by buying records and merch.
I quit Spotify. I miss the playlists. I still quit. I have Autism and have a hard case of Justice Sensitivity. I'm 64 and have been a music snob since my undergrad stint in 1980 in the Lost Angeles area as a college dj. It may be easier for me to drop the new technology because I'm decades deep in the old tech. (I have done the iPod mod though so I'm not completely Stone Age.) I like owning my music. I like knowing that if the God Squad starts censoring music like they are doing with books that I have music that is "mine" and won't disappear into the ether. I have no expectation that anyone else needs to do what I do. But I have friends my age that were are in successful bands that still tour and I know how much they get paid. I buy merch, I see the gigs....and after they told me how much they get paid I spend more on Bandcamp supporting them like I used to buying their albums. It's what I do to live in alignment with my values.
I like cheese. I just feel like buying the cheese I like is better than just having a sample at Costco and hoping that the cheese sample is there next time......not sure if that's a great analogy for this situation, but hey, cheese.
Love this! And I have thoughts. Off to get them in order and then I’ll return
I'll share my vegan except for cheese:
With Apple Music's library integrating all the digital files I accumulated before starting a streaming subscription, I have my high school CD rips, living alongside the bounty secured during my college pirate years, living alongside songs I added through Apple's streaming library. When you start an Apple Music subscription, you have the option of uploading your existing iTunes library of locally-stored files to Apple Music's servers, and they will either match to songs from their library (and will be streamed at their lossless quality) or will just upload that old file, unmatched to anything, and play a copy of that file that lives in their cloud.
As each song is added to the library, I add my own comments to the metadata, using little codes that make sense to me. One such code is a $ for any song I purchased (via CD that I ripped back in the day or purchased through Bandcamp today).
Then I have smart playlists with criteria that effectively retire songs from circulation if they don't have a dollar sign in the comments but have been listened to more than 10 times. At that point, they move to a smart playlist (that I never play) but functions as a to-do list: either pony up the dough to add the song into permanent rotation, or delete the song from the library. When I have room in the budget, I head to that playlist and show some love to the artists that have clearly moved me.
Not realistic for the average listener, but it fits my obsessive listening habits perfectly. 😌
There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism. Buying records and CDs contributes to the petroleum industry, as does driving to the store or having stuff delivered. It also contributes to the paper industry, which isn’t exactly known for sustainable practices. Industry itself makes for pollution, albeit less now than at the start of the Industrial Revolution. Even posting a discussion like this, however helpful at spreading a message and critically examining the issues, still relies on a robust but very evil tech industry and infrastructure.
Come to think of it, many of the musicians we support smoke, drink, and do drugs. Shall we start on how so many musicians and so called anti-establishment cool kids support Big Tobacco? Or cartels? I love Minor Threat but I’d like to hear Pink Floyd again.
Even if we spent every dime ethically, we have no way of knowing how our money is used by the next person.
Expecting people to be aware of all the ways they are being unethical, like we’re all subscribed to the same leftist newsletter with this week’s marching orders and talking points (while the world burns regardless), is just being an obnoxious scold. There is no way to be ethical! That’s not us. That’s the system. Yes, we’re part of the system. If we all rose up, yadda yadda, utopia. Guess what, musicians are still gonna need to put their music out there. People are still gonna do the easiest and cheapest thing.
All we can do is try to use the evil tools for good and try to get some sleep at night before getting up and trying again. Otherwise enjoying life is implausible.
I think i mentioned this on an earlier post, but my personal line in the sand with Spotify was Joe Rogan, the same way Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais were my line on Netflix. I don't judge anyone else for still using them, but as a trans person I couldn't spend my money that way anymore. I also don't mean to sound like a hipster, but I still listen to a fair amount of FM radio. I don't know how radio compensates artists compared to streaming, but I still listen to a lot of music I never pay for by purchasing an album.
I've tried Tidal but it tends to crash and their Android Auto interface is really lacking. I have YT Music for free through another subscription and for obvious reasons it plays well with Android so I'll often use that in the car.
The last point in favor of streaming services is the ability to find artists who don't sing in English. That's something you don't find on US radio or even most record stores. Not just the conlang singers like jan Usawi who you shared recently, but the indigenous music movement, German or French artists I've found and enjoyed over the years, anything like that.
A lot of good points made by others, too. The music industry has always been exploitative. We've only really had broadly available, commercially released music for 100 years. In that time we've gone through a few different models of distribution and the balance has always had to be struck between the listener, the artist, and the various intermediaries. We've probably gotten a lot of that wrong. Streaming is still pretty young. with luck we'll find a way to make it more equitable, but media is a constant struggle. TV is consolodating these days, too, which really sucks. We're down to, what, 4 companies that own everything just about? Maybe the end of this era will be the return of the wandering bard.
i embrace the return of the bard! funny how everyone hated the idea of cable so much and now we've effectively just forced ourselves back into it by spending a shit ton of money on 5+ different TV streaming services, all with "freemium" ads, just to get a cable-esque experience.
on another note i don't think i ever thought i'd see "hipster" and "fm radio" in the same sentence. i don't think hipsters really exist anymore to be fair, but when they did, i'm pretty sure none of them would admit to listening to anything on the radio ;) maybe college radio!
All the cool kids are listening to Community Radio and LW stations.
I love that this posted the same day Spotify notified me of an increase in their monthly fee. 🫠
That said, partially because of Spotify (the algorithm and playlists), My partner and I went to 30 shows last year. Merch was purchased at 90% of those shows. My Spotify subscription may bankrupt me financially and morally, but until there is an equal alternative, I am sticking with it. The thought of restarting my algorithm makes my old head hurt.
I'm still trying to navigate through all of this. I love that I have been exposed to a ton of music via Spotify over the years. I've got dozens of playlists on my account. I also use Apple Music, which is where I take all of the best stuff I hear on Spotify. So, I could probably dump Spotify at this point. Ultimately I need to do what's most convenient for me but I do want to support artists more than I do.
happily there's a way to do both
Organizing is more important than boycotting. If you have an issue. Organize around it. Cancelling 1 sub does nothing. Organizing 100,000 people to cancel their subs sends the message.
another reason why it's a good idea to educate and write about it, I think. and as somebody who feels stuck with Spotify from a curation perspective, I'm also chatting with app makers who are trying to create alternatives that are better for curators and not just listeners
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