In my 20s, Lily Allen made pop music relatable. West End Girl is supposed to be doing the same thing for my 40s; I'm trying to figure out why it isn't (and why nobody's talking about the actual music)
You’ve brilliantly articulated something I haven’t seen addressed elsewhere i.e. surely this can’t be more relatable than her early records. I understand it’s getting a lot of love from people who have been repeatedly disappointed by men but I struggle to get on board with the specificities of rich people problems (even if the underpinning themes are more universal).
Perhaps I’m closed-minded though. I’ve never managed to get past the combination of nepotism and white reggae
i didn't know about the nepotism until much later, so that's something that was easier to get past in retrospect. the reggae I'm not sure I understand -- you know my hatred for it, so I think her ability to make it palatable to me is something I've always admired. i guess she was able to tap into my love of ska somehow.
My feelings exactly. I think I wrote her off by association, which is a little unkind. I always felt she was someone who fell into music, and that her personality (and connections) carried most of her earlier material. She improved as she went along but her music was never something I connected to. It’s fascinating to see how context shapes our reactions and perceptions so much.
This is actually what music writing should be! People who love music have an emotional response to what they hear which is not necessarily tied to how accomplished it is. I haven’t listened to the new Lily Allen (or any since the first, which incidentally I loved) but I am now intrigued. For someone who I feel still has their finger on the pulse and is a contemporary of Lily Allen, I would highly recommend Kate Nash. I saw her live in 2023 and she blew me away. Her last album, 9 Sad Symphonies, is one of my favourites of last year.
I like your recommendations, but I LOVE these essays. I think you nailed the essential thing about how we relate to pop stars — our real-life friends change and we grow apart, and so can our pop-stars “friends.” It’s different, but it’s a thing.
Now I’m looking glumly out the window because I wanted to click “music” in the poll, and my whole self-image called for it, but an honest look at my musical life, as practitioner and listener, meant I had to click “lyrics.”
thanks for saying so because you're in the vast minority here! but it's my favorite sort of thing to write and takes the most effort 😅
i like your self reflection here. I'm very curious about people who prefer the lyrics over the music! i read a lot (or I used to) and I like poetry but I don't need it set to music. i feel like lyrical content enhances music but it's the music that must come first otherwise why aren't we just reading it?
Like I said, I don’t WANT to pick lyrics over music. And I don’t listen to much from the lyrics-forward singer-songwriter types. But I can’t help it — if I don’t understand a lyric I have to listen again until I get it; a dumb lyric on an out chorus can ruin a whole song for me; when we were teenagers learning covers I was the one who could pick out the lyric no one else could get, and writing songs now I can come up with a reasonably interesting chord progression almost at will but I’ll labor over the lyrics for months or decades (no, seriously) until they’re good enough (a feeling that lasts about a week).
Sometimes the best lyric is yeah yeah yeah! You don’t always need a sixth verse! Or you can reuse one! These are concepts I’m slowly learning but they will never be instinctive. It’s not very rock & roll, but (sigh) neither am I. (Neither is using an ampersand in rock & roll, is it?)
I'm so surprised by the results of your lyrics vs music poll that I'm ditching the post I wrote this week to write another post about lyrics. Lyrics>Music. 100%. Fight me. lol
really really really did not like the actual music on this record. the revelations would've better suited a book or like a film, just seems like actual choruses and melodies and good lyricism is thrown to the side in favor of being salacious. (also wrote a similar review on my page not to self-promote but good to see someone else making similar holes in the actual music part of a music album.)
while I wouldn't take it that far I definitely agree that folks are being blinded by the story. take it away and I don't think there would be sticking power here. she's doing something interesting and I'm always appreciative of a musician forcing people to sit through a full record but MUSIC FIRST dammit
I think I feel pretty much the same about the album. It's kind of the same way I felt about The Chicks' "Gaslighter" album. The music and production was quite good, and the songs had plenty of hooks. But every song on the album contained granular details of a really ugly divorce and I found I couldn't really *enjoy* listening to it.
i struggled with writing this article because i can't quite pin down why it didn't resonate. i LIKE the dishy divorce stuff. it's great. but strip that away and the music doesn't stand on its own. it's hooky, yeah, but when i first listened to it without really knowing what a critical smash it was, i thought it was a bit bland and unmemorable (the production on her vocals is especially overdone). i DO like it, but take the lyrics away and we wouldn't all be so mesmerized by it. that's not what music is about to me.
I think the music is pretty throw away. Well produced pop, and they tried to make it interesting by varying it from song to song I guess, but it’s basically just an underscore to the story.
Which is to say this is a musical.
It’s a story set to music, and real housewives fans are going to love it.
i love your theory, but it is named after a musical hub for the very simple reason that she changed the trajectory of her life when she started acting in 2:22 A Ghost Story on the West End. it's referenced in the first song
Yes I get that is the stated reason and obvious reason, but I just think its at the very least synchronicitous that the album is kind of a low key musical
I guess I'll have to get around to giving it a listen. I never really caught the Lilly Allen bug, so my perspective is quite different.
I do understand yours tho, I often have trouble getting hooked on newer albums from old favorites. It's not from a relatabllity standpoint- for me. It's more like this reminds me so much of what I love, but it isn't that.
Also, very much in the music camp in the music vs. lyrics debate. Lyrics can add or subtract, but honestly it takes a while for me to notice them.
100% same on the lyrics adding or subtracting, but i'm learning more and more as the years go on that a massive proportion of music lovers are the exact opposite. it's crazy to me. what's the point, then? just... read poetry then, surely? i know i'm missing something!
Also on the music camp like you, and also one who liked “Tennis” most of all. The rest felt like me eavesdropping, which is weird considering my entire Substack is predicated on me processing cheating. So am I the only one supposed to do it? Can’t the stars do it, too? I’m confused myself…
don't get me wrong, I think she's a poet. but if the music existed without that poetry,I would be pretty underwhelmed, and that wasn't the case for her earlier albums, where the lyrics added that spice of relatability that made it so memorable for me. i don't know that I would have given this a second look without the hype around the theme, and that's not what music means to me
This is so interesting to me!! This is actually the first Lily Allen album I've listened to repeatedly start to finish (I'm 49, if that's useful context). I admit I was sucked in by the drama, but I have stuck around because I find it sonically quite compelling! I lot of shimmery crashy layers which I love! (But also I have experienced a lot of poly-drama in my life!!)
that's good!! i do want people to love the music. i like it plenty, it just would have receded into the background of all the other good-to-great records coming out if it weren't for the sensationalism around it, y'know?
You've hit the nail on the head. Like you, I rarely pay attention to lyrics, so engaging with this album doesn't feel instinctive as I'm being forced to "hear" the tracks rather than "listen" to them. I've not got past the first three songs yet...
i do encourage you to listen all the way through at least once before fully making up your mind, but if i didn't have "history" with lily (so to speak) i would have stopped where you did, tbh.
West End Girl lyrics seems like she was writing the lyrics in her head during their AD Home Tour. The vibe of interview/tour just seemed so....off.
One thing I don't see people talking about is the videos. I LOVE them! This is the quirkiness of Lily Allen. Not sure what her intention was in making the music videos but I think its poking fun at the repetition of social media/content creation, so much is the same thing over and over again.
I’m not usually a lyrics person but I loved this album for the lyrics! It made me tune into the words in a way I usually don’t. (I should say that I also really love gossip…)
It reminds me of popular fiction right now, which often tells a similar one-sided story about men. I’ve never been cheated on and I don’t relate to most of the lyrics at all. I think that’s what makes it so fun to listen to! It’s like entering a different world in a fiction book, but to a really fun beat.
I will say, I didn’t really like Ruminating when I first listened (because of the music, not the lyrics) and almost abandoned the whole album. I’m so glad I didn’t. I think your criticism is super valid and I love the album anyway.
actually same I almost gave to after ruminating because it was so cold and dull musically. some folks in the NBFOH discord actually suspected AI! i thought maybe the coldness was the point but I'm also glad I stuck it out. like I said it's a good record and I do love it as a full album but I don't think it works in pieces or without the lyrics
Lmao the kicker. South Philly person here! But yeah, i find the music on this album far less enjoyable than the lyrics, though the Lana vibes on “Pussy Palace” are immaculate. Great read’
You’ve brilliantly articulated something I haven’t seen addressed elsewhere i.e. surely this can’t be more relatable than her early records. I understand it’s getting a lot of love from people who have been repeatedly disappointed by men but I struggle to get on board with the specificities of rich people problems (even if the underpinning themes are more universal).
Perhaps I’m closed-minded though. I’ve never managed to get past the combination of nepotism and white reggae
i didn't know about the nepotism until much later, so that's something that was easier to get past in retrospect. the reggae I'm not sure I understand -- you know my hatred for it, so I think her ability to make it palatable to me is something I've always admired. i guess she was able to tap into my love of ska somehow.
Keith Allen was always just a “thing” in 90s Britain. I don’t think anyone wanted more of him
My feelings exactly. I think I wrote her off by association, which is a little unkind. I always felt she was someone who fell into music, and that her personality (and connections) carried most of her earlier material. She improved as she went along but her music was never something I connected to. It’s fascinating to see how context shapes our reactions and perceptions so much.
This is actually what music writing should be! People who love music have an emotional response to what they hear which is not necessarily tied to how accomplished it is. I haven’t listened to the new Lily Allen (or any since the first, which incidentally I loved) but I am now intrigued. For someone who I feel still has their finger on the pulse and is a contemporary of Lily Allen, I would highly recommend Kate Nash. I saw her live in 2023 and she blew me away. Her last album, 9 Sad Symphonies, is one of my favourites of last year.
thank you lou!!
I like your recommendations, but I LOVE these essays. I think you nailed the essential thing about how we relate to pop stars — our real-life friends change and we grow apart, and so can our pop-stars “friends.” It’s different, but it’s a thing.
Now I’m looking glumly out the window because I wanted to click “music” in the poll, and my whole self-image called for it, but an honest look at my musical life, as practitioner and listener, meant I had to click “lyrics.”
thanks for saying so because you're in the vast minority here! but it's my favorite sort of thing to write and takes the most effort 😅
i like your self reflection here. I'm very curious about people who prefer the lyrics over the music! i read a lot (or I used to) and I like poetry but I don't need it set to music. i feel like lyrical content enhances music but it's the music that must come first otherwise why aren't we just reading it?
Like I said, I don’t WANT to pick lyrics over music. And I don’t listen to much from the lyrics-forward singer-songwriter types. But I can’t help it — if I don’t understand a lyric I have to listen again until I get it; a dumb lyric on an out chorus can ruin a whole song for me; when we were teenagers learning covers I was the one who could pick out the lyric no one else could get, and writing songs now I can come up with a reasonably interesting chord progression almost at will but I’ll labor over the lyrics for months or decades (no, seriously) until they’re good enough (a feeling that lasts about a week).
Sometimes the best lyric is yeah yeah yeah! You don’t always need a sixth verse! Or you can reuse one! These are concepts I’m slowly learning but they will never be instinctive. It’s not very rock & roll, but (sigh) neither am I. (Neither is using an ampersand in rock & roll, is it?)
I'm so surprised by the results of your lyrics vs music poll that I'm ditching the post I wrote this week to write another post about lyrics. Lyrics>Music. 100%. Fight me. lol
I'M ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED
wdym lyrics>music?!! just write poetry then like??? i will brawl over this
really really really did not like the actual music on this record. the revelations would've better suited a book or like a film, just seems like actual choruses and melodies and good lyricism is thrown to the side in favor of being salacious. (also wrote a similar review on my page not to self-promote but good to see someone else making similar holes in the actual music part of a music album.)
while I wouldn't take it that far I definitely agree that folks are being blinded by the story. take it away and I don't think there would be sticking power here. she's doing something interesting and I'm always appreciative of a musician forcing people to sit through a full record but MUSIC FIRST dammit
I think I feel pretty much the same about the album. It's kind of the same way I felt about The Chicks' "Gaslighter" album. The music and production was quite good, and the songs had plenty of hooks. But every song on the album contained granular details of a really ugly divorce and I found I couldn't really *enjoy* listening to it.
i struggled with writing this article because i can't quite pin down why it didn't resonate. i LIKE the dishy divorce stuff. it's great. but strip that away and the music doesn't stand on its own. it's hooky, yeah, but when i first listened to it without really knowing what a critical smash it was, i thought it was a bit bland and unmemorable (the production on her vocals is especially overdone). i DO like it, but take the lyrics away and we wouldn't all be so mesmerized by it. that's not what music is about to me.
I think the music is pretty throw away. Well produced pop, and they tried to make it interesting by varying it from song to song I guess, but it’s basically just an underscore to the story.
Which is to say this is a musical.
It’s a story set to music, and real housewives fans are going to love it.
Which is perhaps why it’s named after a musical hub
i love your theory, but it is named after a musical hub for the very simple reason that she changed the trajectory of her life when she started acting in 2:22 A Ghost Story on the West End. it's referenced in the first song
Yes I get that is the stated reason and obvious reason, but I just think its at the very least synchronicitous that the album is kind of a low key musical
it's very much a musical!
I guess I'll have to get around to giving it a listen. I never really caught the Lilly Allen bug, so my perspective is quite different.
I do understand yours tho, I often have trouble getting hooked on newer albums from old favorites. It's not from a relatabllity standpoint- for me. It's more like this reminds me so much of what I love, but it isn't that.
Also, very much in the music camp in the music vs. lyrics debate. Lyrics can add or subtract, but honestly it takes a while for me to notice them.
100% same on the lyrics adding or subtracting, but i'm learning more and more as the years go on that a massive proportion of music lovers are the exact opposite. it's crazy to me. what's the point, then? just... read poetry then, surely? i know i'm missing something!
Also on the music camp like you, and also one who liked “Tennis” most of all. The rest felt like me eavesdropping, which is weird considering my entire Substack is predicated on me processing cheating. So am I the only one supposed to do it? Can’t the stars do it, too? I’m confused myself…
don't get me wrong, I think she's a poet. but if the music existed without that poetry,I would be pretty underwhelmed, and that wasn't the case for her earlier albums, where the lyrics added that spice of relatability that made it so memorable for me. i don't know that I would have given this a second look without the hype around the theme, and that's not what music means to me
This is so interesting to me!! This is actually the first Lily Allen album I've listened to repeatedly start to finish (I'm 49, if that's useful context). I admit I was sucked in by the drama, but I have stuck around because I find it sonically quite compelling! I lot of shimmery crashy layers which I love! (But also I have experienced a lot of poly-drama in my life!!)
that's good!! i do want people to love the music. i like it plenty, it just would have receded into the background of all the other good-to-great records coming out if it weren't for the sensationalism around it, y'know?
You've hit the nail on the head. Like you, I rarely pay attention to lyrics, so engaging with this album doesn't feel instinctive as I'm being forced to "hear" the tracks rather than "listen" to them. I've not got past the first three songs yet...
i do encourage you to listen all the way through at least once before fully making up your mind, but if i didn't have "history" with lily (so to speak) i would have stopped where you did, tbh.
Yes, I absolutely will.
Great piece! Thoroughly enjoyed it. The album was a one and done for me. I respect the craft, regardless.
thanks very much! and i hear you.
West End Girl lyrics seems like she was writing the lyrics in her head during their AD Home Tour. The vibe of interview/tour just seemed so....off.
One thing I don't see people talking about is the videos. I LOVE them! This is the quirkiness of Lily Allen. Not sure what her intention was in making the music videos but I think its poking fun at the repetition of social media/content creation, so much is the same thing over and over again.
i haven't watched them yet! that's something to look forward to
I’m not usually a lyrics person but I loved this album for the lyrics! It made me tune into the words in a way I usually don’t. (I should say that I also really love gossip…)
It reminds me of popular fiction right now, which often tells a similar one-sided story about men. I’ve never been cheated on and I don’t relate to most of the lyrics at all. I think that’s what makes it so fun to listen to! It’s like entering a different world in a fiction book, but to a really fun beat.
I will say, I didn’t really like Ruminating when I first listened (because of the music, not the lyrics) and almost abandoned the whole album. I’m so glad I didn’t. I think your criticism is super valid and I love the album anyway.
actually same I almost gave to after ruminating because it was so cold and dull musically. some folks in the NBFOH discord actually suspected AI! i thought maybe the coldness was the point but I'm also glad I stuck it out. like I said it's a good record and I do love it as a full album but I don't think it works in pieces or without the lyrics
Lmao the kicker. South Philly person here! But yeah, i find the music on this album far less enjoyable than the lyrics, though the Lana vibes on “Pussy Palace” are immaculate. Great read’
yes that's exactly it isn't it
This is the first time I’ve heard about the scandal … Will give the album a listen (and her old albums too).
whew well you made me feel like I wasn't too late with this! i will be interested to know what you think